Every year, enrollment and marketing leaders sign off on conference registrations, flights, and hotel rooms… sometimes without much of a plan for what comes back. In this episode, Jarrett Smith, Scott Rhodes, and Jeff Kallay draw on decades of presenting, exhibiting, and attending to explain what these events can actually do for your team. Scott shares the debrief system he used as a VP to turn every trip into staff development, Jeff makes the case for treating the exhibit hall as free research and career networking, and the group takes a candid look at why the whole conference model needs a refresh.
Key Takeaways
- Send Staff With Assignments: Scott’s VP playbook: have team members choose sessions tied to something they’re actively working on, bring back start, stop, continue ideas, and share what they learned at the next staff meeting.
- The Exhibit Hall Is Free Consulting: Vendors invest in original research, blogs, and podcasts. Your team should be asking every relevant firm, “What are you providing that helps me do my job better?”
- Know the Players Before You Need Them: If an RFP is likely in the next 12 months, conference season is the time to meet four providers in that space instead of defaulting to the two names you already know.
- Your Conference Runs on Vendor Money: Exhibitors and sponsors subsidize the events your team attends. Engaging them thoughtfully keeps registration affordable and the conferences you rely on viable.
- First-Timers Deserve Training: Associations pour money into gimmicks to drive exhibit hall traffic when a first-timer session on how to work a conference would serve young professionals far better.
Episode Highlights
- [00:19] Why conferences deserve a rethink: framing the state of admissions and enrollment marketing events.
- [03:46] What the exhibit hall really costs: an insider look at the money behind every booth your team walks past.
- [06:59] How vendors measure ROI, and why that long game shapes the partners who show up for your campus.
- [08:30] The Saturday problem: why exhibit halls empty out and what it signals about scheduling.
- [09:55] What smaller conferences owe their sponsors and their attendees.
- [12:56] The symbiotic relationship: what attendees and vendors each bring to a conference that works.
- [15:28] Scott’s VP playbook: session assignments, debriefs, and making attendance count.
- [16:09] Turning the exhibit hall into professional development for your junior staff.
- [21:46] One change each host would make, from ditching Saturdays to funding first-timer training.
Transcript
Jarrett Smith (00:04):
Well, hey everybody. Welcome to the Enrollment Brief. I’m Jarrett Smith joined today as always by Jeff Kallay and Scott Rhodes. Hey, welcome guys. Good to see you. And Jeff, you have our topic today. What are we talking about?
Jeff Kallay (00:19):
I think it’s a conversation we’re going to have that I think is very much needed about admissions and enrollment marketing conferences. You know me, I’m all about the fourth turning. Thank you, Neil Howe. Institutions are decaying, new ones are being created. And I think much as I and Echo Delta helps clients rethink their events, I want us to have a conversation about the state of these conferences, give some tips on several different levels I think to everyone is spending money on these. I want to get your point of view, Jared, about as a partner at Echo Delta, we spend a fair amount of our budget on these and talk to enrollment and marketing leaders who attend and also send a lot of staff. I know I was sent to a conference as a first year admissions counselor and I think Scott and I, and we’ve all exhibited and presented.
(01:22):
So I just want us to have a conversation about the state of it and recommendations that we think can help everyone who’s involved and maybe some recommendations to change and update these things. How’s that sound guys?
Jarrett Smith (01:37):
Sounds good, man.
Jeff Kallay (01:38):
And I know Scott Rhodes is so excited about this topic because he loves his conferences. Sorry, inside joke from an earlier meeting today. So I’m just going to put it out there. I think that conferences have evolved and we’ve all gone to them and there’s a lot of different players. And I think you’ve got really big ones in our world like AMA and NACAC. I know NACAC, I’ll talk about that one. While the association does host it, they do pay a firm to produce that big conference, right? Because you’re talking 6,000 people. Whereas I think other conferences like NACAP and NAGAP and all the regional NACACs are done by volunteers hosting that association. So for me, my first enrollment… I mean, I did conferences back in the ’80s when I was in missions and then came back to NACAC like two weeks after nine eleven actually out in San Antonio.
(02:48):
You could throw a bowling ball down the aisle and not hit anyone, but it was a special moment for those who were there. And in all honesty, the conference is the exact same as it was 25 years ago when I first went. And I think that’s the point that I want to get across here. So I just want to get you all’s scope on conferences. I’m an extrovert and I love conferences. I used to call myself the king of SACAC, but we as a firm don’t attend those NACAC state and regionals because decision makers aren’t attending. I do love them. I was sad during the pandemic when it all went virtual. I think you lost a lot of humanity and a lot of conversations in the halls and at exhibit halls. But Jerry, you’re more on the… I want to get y’all’s take on conferences, love them, hate them, your history we’ve all presented and exhibited and are sponsors.
Jarrett Smith (03:46):
Yeah. My relationship status with conferences is complicated. So on the front end, I’ll say in the months leading up to the conference when we have to start footing the bill for things and you see the price tag ratcheting up, it’s so expensive. I mean, tens of thousands of dollars we spend on conferences every year. It’s substantial.
Jeff Kallay (04:09):
I some years it could be pushing six digits.
Jarrett Smith (04:12):
Yeah.
Jeff Kallay (04:13):
Yeah. It can. Talk to us as a partner because I don’t think that story is championed much in the associations or we get… Why does Echo Delta make that investment in conferences and as sponsors and exhibitors?
Jarrett Smith (04:29):
Yeah, it’s a long game. And I think we can certainly talk about as an exhibitor, what do we hope to get out of it? But I mean, it’s usually not just like an avalanche of leads and inquiries that’s great when that happens, but it’s really more about making connections with leaders and decision makers and future leaders and decision makers. I think that the best partners that we work with, they understand and are very aware of the amount of expense that you go to and they treat us well. They demonstrate that by just being super well organized, even if they’re not necessarily a good deal. I always want a better deal. I mean, just to get a stinking power strip at your booth sometimes. And I realize that’s not the organizers, that’s like Freeman and these other…
Jeff Kallay (05:26):
The decorators.
Scott Rhodes (05:28):
A power strip’s $1,000.
Jarrett Smith (05:30):
Yes. Yes. And I can neither confirm nor deny ways we’ve found to work around that.
Jeff Kallay (05:36):
But I mean, you look at all the budgets. We got your exhibit or sponsorship fee and then – Shipping. Shipping, exhibit. If it’s a big one like NACAP, we’re paying the decorators. And then I love like, what’s that, Scott?
Scott Rhodes (05:53):
Furniture, the carpet.
Jeff Kallay (05:54):
Furniture, electricity. Plus all the team’s travel and expenses. It adds up.
Jarrett Smith (06:01):
Yeah. And promo materials like good stuff that people actually want that just isn’t like the schlocky.
Jeff Kallay (06:09):
Or if we’re a particular sponsorship level, they’re like, “And you can do a bag insert.” And I’m like, “Okay, that’s more money, right? Because we got to ship those and print those inserts and all that.”
Scott Rhodes (06:19):
I love the teachers coming around to get their pens.
Jeff Kallay (06:22):
The counselors. Yeah.
Scott Rhodes (06:26):
I feel for them because they don’t have materials. So I said, “Hey, load up, load up. I get it.”
Jeff Kallay (06:32):
I think that’s one thing we do do well is we put the pens and the sticky notes and all those out there for the secondary folks to take. And then I will say people do love Echo Delta stickers. I mean, come up to our table looking for them.
Jarrett Smith (06:49):
And the socks. We’ve been doing the socks for so many years now. We’re going to have to do another edition, but people will come by wearing their socks and they’re like, “Look, I’ve got them on.”
Jeff Kallay (06:59):
I think we’ve upped our conference game significantly in investment. As a partner, do you see an ROI?
Jarrett Smith (07:08):
Yeah. Although it depends on over what timeframe you’re looking for. So if it is and what specifically. So again, typically, depending on the conference, it’s not necessarily going to be like an avalanche of inquiries, but we will always find out about upcoming RFPs that we didn’t know about and get invited. So you kind of measure it in terms of are we getting unique invites to RFPs or projects that were upcoming? And that may be six months or even sometimes two years down the road. And so we keep track of who did we meet? And we’re not hammering them with sales messages, but it’s like that long term just showing up, being there consistently, I think has a little bit of a compounding effect. If people recognize you, they see the vendors coming and going and they’re like, “Oh, you’ve been here for the past six or 10 or 20 years.
(08:04):
We’re aware of who you are.” And then also in our website analytics, do we see more schools that we haven’t seen visiting our website more than say we did last year? It’s like those sorts of things that are all the precursors to
(08:23):
Actually gaining clients.
Jeff Kallay (08:25):
Thanks, Jared. So Scott, what’s in your mind with conferences right now?
Scott Rhodes (08:30):
Well, Jared’s relationship is complicated. Mine’s extremely complicated. I would say from NACACT perspective, I think NACACT has done a great job and they have done a great job for a very long time. And when I say they do a great job from a vendor standpoint, I think they do a nice job attracting VPs and directors around. And there’s enough vendors that are there and the big players are there, which it’s just like if you’re public supermarket and you want the store right beside the public supermarket, getting that spot right beside niche every year like we try to get or one of the other big players. I think that’s important. And the space is getting more and more expensive each year. But I understand you’re at a convention center and they have to rent it for a certain amount of days. I think if I had one complaint about NACAC, it would be, why are we doing these Saturdays?
(09:32):
And I imagine it’s probably because they have to rent the facility for a certain amount of days and they have that Saturday. I just wouldn’t force vendors to be there on a Saturday when you know there’s not going to be an audience. I mean, just I would say, “Hey, the exhibit hall’s not open. They should do
Jeff Kallay (09:50):
Something
Scott Rhodes (09:50):
About it.” So through
Jeff Kallay (09:50):
The associations were saying some of them are too long.
Scott Rhodes (09:55):
Yeah. Some are definitely too long. And Saturday doesn’t make any sense because what happens, all the directors and the VPs are gone and the people that are there on Saturday morning are hung over. So we work in admissions. We’re drinking a bunch. I would say then where it changes for me even more is when you get down into some of the smaller conferences, I get it to volunteers. They don’t have people promoting it. They don’t have as large sponsorships. But I don’t want to give them an easy out because of that because if you’re expecting $8,000 from us for a sponsorship, you need to deliver VPs and directors to those conferences and a sizable amount. If not, your price point should affect that. I don’t think it’s fair to try to charge $8,000 to cover all your expenses on the vendor’s back. A small agency like Echo Delta, that’s a lot of money.
(11:01):
And we’re very selective with what we do outside AMA and NACAC. So I guess my message would be to them, you need to work a little harder to get the right people there if you want to keep those type of sponsorships coming. And especially maybe you have different tiers. Maybe some of these larger companies are going to come, you charge a different price. I don’t know what the answer is, but I would definitely be working with my VPs if I was a volunteer and the directors to say, “Hey, if you enjoy this for your team and your staff to come to these events each year, you guys got to really show up and not only show up, but spend some time with these vendors talking to them because they have funded this for you.” I appreciated NACAP this year. It was so funny. They had these little booklets and people came around and it said in the booklet and they were reading it right from the book.
(11:57):
Thank you Echo Delta for being a sponsor.
Jarrett Smith (12:02):
Check.
Scott Rhodes (12:05):
I appreciate the thank you. That’s wonderful. That’s awesome.
Jeff Kallay (12:12):
I agree. I think that much like campus visit and events, we brought back the book after the pandemic and things are too long. And at two recent conferences that I was at SIFSA and NATCAP, everyone began breaking down their exhibits well before breakdown time. But let me come back around to that passport, bingo, whatever those kind of things the associations create to get people to engage. Jared, do those happen at marketing conferences? Those kind of –
Jarrett Smith (12:43):
Yeah. I’m trying to remember the last time. I have seen little passports and things like that. You get your passport stamped
Jeff Kallay (12:51):
Or something like that. Are you all fans of those attempts at engagement?
Jarrett Smith (12:56):
I think anything we can do to kind of spark that engagement. I know people are nervous to walk into the vendor hall and they’re like, “Oh my God, I’m going to get talked to and stronger. Somebody’s going to be really salesy. And I don’t know if I really want to talk to this person.” I think you guys are kind of hitting on the fact that there’s this symbiotic relationship of people go to the conference because they get value out of it through networking, hopefully in part through vendor presentations and learning things that they didn’t know and building up their own knowledge base and expanding their network. And I think vendors, obviously that’s why we’re there. At the same time, I think it’s on us to deliver really good value and to play our part in that and not turn people off with being overly aggressive on the sales front.
(13:49):
I mean, I think a lot of folks, I always recognize that a lot of folks walking by, they’re not in market shopping for a new agency right then. That’s not where we’re at. And so let’s now hopefully if we can connect and we can be relevant, then maybe a year and a half down the road when they are, we come to mind. But I think part of that has got to be as a vendor, you’ve got to demonstrate the value and bring something to the table beyond just like, “Hey, spend your money with me.
Jeff Kallay (14:19):
” Which is why we always try to have presentations. I know my whole career in this, and I know at Echo Delta, we’re very adamant that they’re not sales presentations, that they’re really value added. And I need the associations to trust us on that because I think some of them block being able to present.
Jarrett Smith (14:44):
I think, Jeff, along those lines, I know sometimes folks block it. And I think that vendors can bring a lot to the table. A lot of us invest in unique research. We’re staffed with really smart people and we can provide that helpful outside perspective. And then the other piece of that though is I really have a distaste for vendor presentations that are overly salesy. Yeah. And I think –
Jeff Kallay (15:15):
It’s cringe.
Jarrett Smith (15:17):
It is really cringey. I feel like introduce yourself. Tell them where your website is if they want to find more and then put the fries in the bag, deliver the goods.
Jeff Kallay (15:28):
Okay. So Scott, when you were a vice president, did you send your team to conferences?
Scott Rhodes (15:35):
Oh, absolutely.
Jeff Kallay (15:36):
I set
Scott Rhodes (15:36):
Up conferences. And then when they came back, I’d have them share with the team what they learned. What presentations did they go to? Which ones did they enjoy the most? Why did you enjoy them? I’d have that in my weekly staff.
Jeff Kallay (15:50):
They had to do a debrief.
Scott Rhodes (15:52):
Yes. We had a
Jeff Kallay (15:53):
Great
Scott Rhodes (15:53):
Debrief.
Jeff Kallay (15:54):
Did you train them on how to be a good conference attendee on the way going?
Scott Rhodes (16:01):
I would give them tips and pointers. I would not necessarily train them in that respect, but give them some advice. Yes.
Jeff Kallay (16:09):
Okay. See, I think that’s where I’m at this point. So some advice for a VP who’s listening. I think that we watch a lot of attendees, younger, I’m just going to be generational old guy here, Gen Z walk by the booth and not know how to engage and maybe with their Gen Z anxiety and that, or they think they’re not at a purchasing level. But when I present, I always say, for your own networking, you might want to work for one of these firms one day. You might want to get in front of them. And the other thing I say is forget, one, if you’re a really smart associate director, you’re going to elevate a solution or a partner to your director, dean, or vice president. And I do think a vice president could kind of guide their conference attendees because they’re spending money to send their team.
(17:07):
But I also said when I present is like, all of these firms provide like us, blogs, podcasts, research. And at the least as a young professional, you should be finding out from those partner firms, “Hey, tell me what you’re providing me to help me do my job better.” And that’s just the value added that we all provide. And I don’t think that happens. And I think the associations need to do a better job of training first time attendees and younger professionals on how it’s professional development. Because I mean, we’ve all sat in conferences and I know they’ve tried everything to bring food in and puppies and massage chairs. But none of that trickles down to those people coming over to the exhibit tables and then all the exhibitors are complaining. Particularly I think for smaller conferences, there’s a lot of bitching and moaning from table to table that there’s not enough traffic.
(18:13):
Am I wrong?
Scott Rhodes (18:15):
Oh, you’re 100% right. 100%. What is your take, Jeff, on the… I mean, we talked about the conferences themselves having the gimmicks, but the level of gimmicks that are coming from the vendors has… I mean, I think in LA was where I saw it make this incredible jump. And of course it’s LA that makes sense. But literally there were astronauts, people dressed up as astronauts walking around. We saw all of a sudden these big booths with beanbag toss and you could have AI order your coffee with AI every morning and showing off their product, which I thought that one was pretty creative Collegevine. But all these things happening in the booths from the vendor perspective and the amount of money you would see probably that was a big three would have the big booths. Just imagine the dollars that’s being spent. Looking at what we spend, what do you think they’re spending on put some of those booths together?
(19:18):
And what do you think about the gimmicks that are coming out of some of the vendors?
Jeff Kallay (19:24):
The vendor next to us at a recent conference that had a claw machine grabbing for gifts and there was a line, but was it engagement? No. Did our neighbor say, “Well, it raises awareness.” I think if the Hoki is authentic to your product, I get those AI driven companies, that’s authentic. That’s a connection. But when it’s just hokey as a gimmick, I think it adds to the problems that we’re trying to bring to light here about making conferences better. I think it’s a distraction and I really think it’s kind of rude for everyone.
Jarrett Smith (20:06):
I will say one thing that’s driven a lot of… I mean, we’ve done little gimmicks and things like that, stop by our booth kind of stuff over the years and it has helped. The number one thing that has driven booth traffic in my experience is delivering a kick ass presentation and having people come up afterwards and being like, “That was great. Can I grab a copy of this research? I just wanted to tell you I enjoyed that presentation.” And there’s no shortcut to that. And I will say one thing I really like about AMA is they do have a lot of opportunities for vendor presentations. And then, “Hey buddy, it’s on you. Get up there and do your thing.” And they can be really hit and miss. Sometimes people show up unprepared or it just is not going great, but man, and those rooms tend to be pretty packed with people that really care about the topics that are being presented.
(21:00):
I’ve always been really, really grateful for that. So I think if you want real engagement, you have to have done something to deliver real value, which I always think of as just like do your best to tell people something they didn’t already know and give them something, some practical foothold they can use when they get back to the office that gives them a step in the right direction.
Scott Rhodes (21:24):
Yeah. I mean, if I wasn’t at a conference, if I wasn’t watching a presentation, I was probably at Jeff’s booth the entire time sitting at his comfortable chairs or his little… What was that? That was my favorite booth.
Jeff Kallay (21:39):
The long table. The long
Scott Rhodes (21:41):
Table.
Jarrett Smith (21:41):
That was a cool booth, Jeff, back in the day. That was a cool thing. Thanks.
Scott Rhodes (21:44):
That was a really good one.
Jeff Kallay (21:46):
But that was also networking, right? Yep. I mean, there’s a couple photos of that was a render experiences booth before the R&L acquisition and there were like eight different colleges and universities of people hanging out there. And that made me super happy. Okay. If you could change one thing about conferences, what would it be?
Scott Rhodes (22:08):
No more Saturdays.
Jeff Kallay (22:09):
No more Saturdays.
Scott Rhodes (22:14):
My weekends are important to me and I know that the generation, the millennials and Gen Z, they’re extremely important. They’re not interested in being there on a Saturday and it’s shown up. So if you have to rent the hall, just leave it, pay the money. You don’t have to fill it.
Jeff Kallay (22:29):
That’s a valid point.
Jarrett Smith (22:31):
Yeah. I think for me, the value is we’ve talked so much about engagement with people who are in your target market. And I think if leaders would prepare their junior folks with say like, “Hey, I want you to choose sessions based on something relevant that you’re working on and maybe come back with a start, stop, continue set of ideas that we can discuss based on what you heard. And then also, hey, in the next 12 months, we’re probably looking for somebody who does X, Y, and Z. Get to know four people in this space because most of us are walking around with a pretty limited view of how many people do this thing, whether it’s a marketing agency or enrollment consulting or whatever it is. And we’ve got a couple of names that come to mind, but when you’re at a conference, get to know multiple people in that space and it gives you more options and makes you better informed.
Jeff Kallay (23:29):
And for that junior staff, it builds our professional development, right? And that’s where I’m going to build upon. I think for the amount of time and energy and money conferences are spending for the gimmicky stuff to try to get people into exhibit hall spaces, I would rather them really either do a first timer session or spend the money in developing like, here’s how to engage with exhibitors and why and questions to ask them and find the resources and things that they provide and for your own professional development.
Jarrett Smith (24:06):
I like it. Good stuff, Jeff.
Jeff Kallay (24:09):
Well, I hope it’s the forth turning. Institutions are being challenged and decaying and I just feel conferences, there’s a lot of great stuff, but I think I wanted us to get the conversation out there for everyone to understand the exhibitor and vendor and partner point of view, because as they all say, many of those smaller conferences and even NACAC and AMA would not be happening if it wasn’t for the subsidy that exhibitors and partners bring to the table. And I think when you talk to almost all exhibitors, we all feel as Scott opened this up, we’re not getting a full return on our investment. So if you’re a VPM, you’re listening. And if you’re a young professional, we hope you’ll take this advice to heart. And I know Scott is so looking forward to Saturday at NACAC.
Jarrett Smith (25:06):
We’ll make sure the AI chatbots pick that up by dropping it in our transcript. More Saturdays for NACAC. Good deal. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks guys. Good chatting as always. Catch you soon.
Jeff Kallay (25:19):
See y’all at a conference.
