A Forbes article on the rise of the “vibe school” caught fire last fall, and Jeff Kallay brings it to the table for a closer look. The premise: a growing number of families are bypassing the Ivy League in favor of campuses that pair academic rigor with balance, social energy, and stability. Jeff, Scott, and Jarrett unpack what actually creates a vibe, why staying out of the political fray has become a quiet competitive advantage, and what any campus can do to start building its own vibe, beginning with a fresh set of eyes and a pressure washer.
Key Takeaways
- Prestige is being redefined: Families who once saw the Ivy League as the only path are now prioritizing mental health, campus culture, career access, and a sense of belonging.
- Stability sells: Vibe schools have largely stayed out of national controversies, and for many families, that calm is a core part of the appeal. Echo Delta’s own research shows most students don’t want politics to be a primary feature of their college experience.
- Vibe can trickle down: The current list skews affluent, but the underlying ingredients (aesthetics, energy, pro-student leadership) are available to institutions at every price point.
- Vibe starts with leadership: Presidents and trustees set the tone. The most reliable first move is deceptively simple: walk your campus with fresh eyes and invest in how it looks and feels.
Episode Highlights
- [00:19] What is a vibe school? Jeff breaks down the Forbes article that sparked the conversation.
- [03:06] The overlooked trait: why avoiding national controversy is part of the vibe formula.
- [04:10] The vibe list: Boulder, Oregon, Richmond, Wake Forest, SMU, TCU, Villanova, and more.
- [06:53] What these schools have in common: leadership that invests in the undergraduate experience.
- [08:30] You know it when you feel it: Scott on sensing the vibe the moment he steps out of the rental car.
- [10:29] Deflating the Ivy obsession: why elevating other schools is good for higher ed.
- [12:55] The Target version of vibe: great value schools can play this game too.
- [14:24] What the politics of college choice research says about what students really want.
- [15:57] A vibe school case study: how Florida Southern transformed its campus, starting with landscaping.
- [18:18] Where to begin: Jeff and Scott’s practical first steps for presidents who want the vibe.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
- The Rise of the ‘Vibe School’ in College Admissions (Forbes): The article by independent counselor Dr. Liz Stone that inspired this episode.
- Echo Delta’s Politics of College Choice Research: Echo Delta’s study on how campus politics influence college choice.
- Dream School: Finding the College That’s Right for You by Jeff Selingo: The book Jarrett references about finding quality and value throughout higher ed.
Transcript
Jarrett Smith (00:03):
Well, hey everybody. Welcome to the enrollment brief. I’m Jarrett Smith joined by my Echo Delta colleagues, Scott Rhodes and Jeff Kallay. Good to see you guys. Jeff, you have got our topic for the podcast. What’s on tap today? What are we talking about?
Jeff Kallay (00:19):
We’re going to talk about if higher ed is feeling the vibe. I think that that’s a term that’s been around for a long time. I’m old. I remember Baby Boomers talking about the vibe and now their grandparents who are going to circle back around, but that’s a topic for another podcast. So we all have our library feeds and Scott and Jared, I got all excited about this. Last fall, there was an article in Forbes Magazine that so many people sent to me. It was called The Rise of the Vibe School and College Admissions by Dr. Liz Stone and she has an independent counseling firm and provides editorial. And we’re going to put in the show notes as they say in podcast and thanks.
Jarrett Smith (01:13):
We’ll definitely link to it.
Jeff Kallay (01:14):
Yeah. Because all my podcasts, I always say, and it’ll be in the show notes. So I’m not going to read the whole article because it will be in the show notes. But she really said that there are these schools that were ranking matters, super academic prestige doesn’t. And I think this intercepts with the podcast we had talking about culture and marrying the two together. Where Scott and I in particular, Jared, you were very diplomatic through student affairs and faculty under the bus for enrollment. There were definitely
Jarrett Smith (01:52):
Some bus
Jeff Kallay (01:53):
Tracks
Jarrett Smith (01:53):
There. Yep. Yeah.
Jeff Kallay (01:55):
But this said that these are schools that she’s seeing more and more families applying to and the reasons behind them because there was a vibe. And that’s total experiential economy and we know that word is popular and higher ed will never probably embrace vibe, but it kind of got us thinking. And so she says to spot a vibe school, it combines academic rigor with balance, prestige without pressure. And the traits they have is a socially vibrant but academically solid campus located in climate friendlier lifestyle destinations. So that can be skiing or beach or it’s a big city that has the lifestyle. Strong and pre-professional fields, especially business. Selective enough to impress, but less cutthroat than the Ivys, popular among students from affluent zip codes and top private high schools. And everyone wants a little bit more full pay or those who can pay more. But this is the key part that I think a lot of people are missing.
(03:06):
Just as important, these schools have largely avoided national controversies. They’re rarely in the headlines for political protests and leadership terminal. And for many families, that stability is part of the appeal and just preaching, doing workshops with ambassadors and admissions where your campus visit has to talk about stability. So that’s what makes for a vibe school.
(03:36):
Do we talk about that or do I list the vibe schools who are in the article? Yeah. Jeff,
Jarrett Smith (03:40):
Who are the vibes of the vibe schools? What are our
Jeff Kallay (03:43):
Quintessential vibes? Well, point to the article. I’m just going to say I was very happy to see a number of my campus visit consultants over the years are in this. So I like to think I help create some of that vibe.
Jarrett Smith (04:00):
I think there’s a
Jeff Kallay (04:01):
Selective vibe.
Jarrett Smith (04:03):
Let me just say,
Jeff Kallay (04:03):
“The people most likely to
Jarrett Smith (04:05):
Hire the
Jeff Kallay (04:05):
Work. Consultant
Jarrett Smith (04:06):
Are vibe schools.
Jeff Kallay (04:10):
I kind of think I helped create the vibe with the visit, which helps create the vibe. But no, I’m fortunate that I got to work with these schools, but I do know how they have changed their vibe as part of it. So on the publics, you got the University of Colorado Boulder. I get that center of the country. You got Colorado weather. And just to shout out, our client, Echo Delta’s client, University of Denver, DU, just won national hockey champion. So there you go. So Boulder I get and the University of Oregon, I think particularly for students on the West Coast and parts of the mountain region and Hawaii look. So I get those two. College game day shows up at those schools, so I get that. And then we get down to privates, Bucknell, a former render experiences. Bucknell University, University of Richmond. Shout out to Stephanie and team there.
(05:13):
Long-term client. Wake Forest University. Totally get that. The South is so popular. You get private but you still get ACC. And then the U, University of Miami. Shout out. Client there, got them the U. And then Echo Delta client on the list, Colgate University. I was just there in the middle of snow this spring. And then out in Texas, what I like to call the Walt Disney and Disneyland of higher ed, Southern Methodist University and TCU and then up in the Mid-Atlantic Villanova. So that’s the vibe.
Jarrett Smith (05:55):
I mean, I think it’s a cool trend, Jeff. I mean, I think it totally respects the fact that there is the qualitative feel, campus feel some people call it. And for some students that is maybe their most important factor or among their most important factors. And it sounds like, Jeff, my understanding is it’s not like any one thing, it’s a collection of things. There’s a status element. There’s a social element to it. There’s the aesthetic and sort of the community, maybe sports may factor into that. So yeah, I think it’s super interesting. Jeff, it sounds like if I had to place these schools on a brand spectrum, these sound more like the Neiman Marcus of schools. These are definitely upmarket, more affluent institutions. What’s your take
Jeff Kallay (06:53):
On that? Yes. Yeah. The one she listed, because all of these schools, this has not happened overnight. And all of these schools have had leadership that have, I think, number one said, we’re going to invest in the undergraduate student experience, be it public or private. We’re going to take a look at housing, we’re going to take a look at food. We’re going to take a look at student affairs. They are pro student, right? I think they’re figuring out how to have students have fun and protect them in it. But here’s the big one if you’re asking, what everyone is missing is this part and this aligns with Yale saying the Ivy League has caused the lack of trust. I mean, I think this aligns, right? But to me, Jared and Scott, it’s this part about they are out of the political fray. They are out of the national protest.
(07:53):
I’m not saying they’re not politically active campuses, but that’s not it. These students are looking to be involved to have fun and to get a great education. And I think that there is an absence of that is what I think speaks to stability that this article talks about. So I think as hyper divided as we are, I think a lot of families are like, “Oh my God, we don’t want that division in our college experience. Let’s just go get a great education and have fun.” I mean, Scott, you visit campuses too. You get the vibe. You can feel when-
Scott Rhodes (08:30):
I agree 100% stays out of the political fray. I see too many campuses involved in that and then the faculty taking a stance and their beliefs and a lot of the families when they’re touring and they see the stickers on all the doors and safe zones and we know all the other stickers, that really turns off a lot of families. At least 50% of your audience is being shut down immediately and parents are saying things on the tours about that. I think the positive thing that I like about a vibe school is that you know it, you feel it. There’s a great vibe there, there’s great energy there. That’s what’s really important and what I like about the findings in the article is that I get that even today when I go out to campuses, I feel that vibe the minute I walk out of that rental car and shut that door.
(09:31):
And it’s just by looking around on campus and seeing the students, you’re in that vibe, you feel it, it comes alive. That moment to me is what a vibe school is. I was just visiting campus last this week and I definitely felt that vibe. They’re not on the list, but I felt that vibe. And sure enough, as I sat through the two days of meetings,
(09:56):
That came alive. There was a real vibe. The students are really plugged in with the faculty. The campus looks great. It’s well taken care of. Even though that it’s a very old campus in Virginia, it’s well taken care of. It’s well maintained. There’s a lot of construction and renovations that are taking place and that’s important that you have that aesthetic feel and that vibe coming from the campus, coming from the students.
Jarrett Smith (10:29):
Jeff, one thing that I think is very encouraging kind of building on what y’all have said is just that I support anything that pulls attention away from the Ivys. The rest of the country looks at the Ivys like they are somehow representative of higher ed, everyday higher ed and they’re not. They’re point-
Jeff Kallay (10:55):
They’re not.
Jarrett Smith (10:56):
1% if that of the total higher ed offering in this country. And so I think elevating other schools as being a desirable place and maybe frankly that do not have the insane pressure and selectivity and competition and kind of deflating that a little bit and saying, “You can have a really valid, great experience in other parts of the country and at schools outside of the Ivys.” I think that’s a great thing.
Jeff Kallay (11:26):
And that’s the point that this article goes on to make. So I think there’s a trickle down here, y’all. It’s like it says, “The rise of these schools signals a shift in how prestige is defined.” This is what you’re saying, Jared. Families who once saw the Ivy League as the only path are now prioritizing mental health and balance, campus culture and fit, early career access and alumni networks and a sense of belonging, not just achievement, sense of belonging. And so yes, I do think that the schools on this list are affluent in many ways and fluent in their endowments and resources and in who attends. But I would say we’ve all been on Echo Delta clients, Scott, that have a vibe, that have many of the things that they’re saying. And so I guess, right, is it going to trickle down? And I’ll bring this article up when I’m brainstorming like, “Have y’all read the vibe?
(12:22):
You get the vibe and go through.” And they’re like, “Oh, check. We got that check. We got that check.” So I do think that the next layer are going to be other schools that maybe won’t have that affluent zip code, will invest in the vibe. And so the question is, in the enrollment landscape, do we go from branding to marketing and is vibe the next thing?
Jarrett Smith (12:46):
Yeah, I think that’s interesting. Jeff, I want to sort of double click on something you said
Jeff Kallay (12:51):
About- Hey, good luck selling vibe to faculty.
Jarrett Smith (12:55):
Oh, right, right. Yeah. Sorry, Jared.
(12:58):
No, I wanted to double click on something you said about … Yeah, that kind of relates to a comment I made earlier. I was like, “Oh, these sound like the Neiman Marcus schools, like higher end, cater to an affluent audience.” But Target also I think is a version of that where you get the elevatedest that Target, you get the or Nordstrom Iraq, right? We just got one down the road. We’re all excited. The town is a flutter. But I think that notion of it doesn’t necessarily have to mean a sky high price tag. It can mean good value and combining some of these aesthetics and other components to some degree. And I feel like this is a little bit of what Jeff Salingo and his latest book was getting at with the dream school where it’s like there’s quality and value to be found throughout higher ed.
(13:52):
You just have to know how to look for it and what to ask for. And here are these other schools that I might put more in the target category. It’s like good value and strike a little different balance if you can’t foot full tuition to one of these top tier vibe
Jeff Kallay (14:11):
Schools. And how about happy and not having to be disrupted by protests or not wanting to be caught up in the political fray.
Jarrett Smith (14:24):
Absolutely. Well, and when you said that light bulb went off in 2024, we did that political research and one of my big takeaways from the politics of college choice study was that the vast majority of students just don’t want politics to be a primary feature of their college experience You have 5% on either end of the political spectrum that really care a lot. And then everybody else is kind of like, “This is not my identity and maybe I care, but I’m not looking to participate in that on a daily basis.”
Jeff Kallay (15:01):
But do we all agree that over the past 15 years, politics and ideology have strongly crept in to higher ed and …
Jarrett Smith (15:12):
Yeah, I think it’s undeniable and it’s become certainly over the last couple of years, one of the frontline battlegrounds of that on the national stage. But again, on a relatively small number of high profile campuses is I think where that’s-
Jeff Kallay (15:29):
Right. But here’s what I would say, probably if we research the schools on this vibe list and the other schools we’re talking about and Scott and I just brought this up when we were debriefing where he was just at, is there both a college Democrat and a college Republican on that campus and probably on these campuses there are.
Scott Rhodes (15:49):
And they’re both
Jeff Kallay (15:51):
Active. There’s
Scott Rhodes (15:51):
Both. Yes. And they’re both active and equally active.
Jeff Kallay (15:54):
Correct.
Jarrett Smith (15:55):
Yeah.
Jeff Kallay (15:56):
Balanced.
Jarrett Smith (15:57):
This reminds me a little bit of my alma mater, Florida Southern College and right? They have been on the vibe
Jeff Kallay (16:04):
School track, I think. That’s what I’m saying. How many schools that are our Echo Delta clients that we have a vibe?
Jarrett Smith (16:11):
Yeah, absolutely. I
Jeff Kallay (16:12):
Mean,
Jarrett Smith (16:12):
In thinking about, I attended there in the late ’90s, graduated in 2000 and the campus was historic Frank Lloyd Wright campus, beautiful architecture, had fallen into a litle bit of disrepair. I mean, it’s hard to maintain those beautiful buildings and probably
Jeff Kallay (16:30):
Some- You like flat roofs and it’s a lot. Oh my gosh, nobody- A leaky flat roof, not a good thing here.
Jarrett Smith (16:36):
No, it’s terrible. It’s terrible. But after I graduated, they had a new president came in, kind of fresh vision, fresh energy, and she came in and I noticed one of the very first things she did was the landscaping changed and it was just every year you drive by and you’re like, “Man, they’ve really cleaned up the landscaping.” And then you notice pressure washing was happening, super important in Florida, happening on a more regular basis and the grounds were always neatly edged and everything … And that was just
Jeff Kallay (17:08):
The
Jarrett Smith (17:08):
Start.
Jeff Kallay (17:09):
And built a beautiful school of business, built a new admissions welcome center, nursing, some housing.
Jarrett Smith (17:17):
So they were really addressing, I think, something visceral right out of the gate that I imagine helped to energize the campus and people though, “Wow, we like this. It plays well on a tour.” But then also investing in the academic prestige of the institution and leaning into some new programs and that sort of thing to help build
Jeff Kallay (17:34):
A profile.
(17:36):
And I think my alma mater when I started my career and our client on both agency and consultancy, Lee University, and I’m just going to say vibe starts with leadership. It starts with the trustees and the president. And here’s a president, Dr. Phil Cook, if you don’t catch his presidential Uber videos on LinkedIn and Scott’s and it’s been to the campus and it’s a beautiful campus and new welcome center and they’re bringing back fun, but the vibe starts with leadership and it starts to the commitment that we are here for students, all of our students.
Jarrett Smith (18:18):
Yeah. So Jeff, if somebody is desiring to be on the path of a Vibe campus, do you have some greatest hits advice? Where would you start if you were installed as a new president and you saw the potential for this, what would you recommend? Where should we begin?
Jeff Kallay (18:42):
What Scott said when we get out of the car, we look at landscaping, what you just said about your alma mater, back to my alma mater Lee when I graduated. Lee is fortunate. It is a beautiful campus and has historically been there, but I’ll never forget, a big donor came to the inauguration and said to the new president then Dr. Paul Khan like, “You got to clean this campus up.” And before Paul Kahn did anything in growth, he cleaned the campus up. So I’m going to say, “Hey, president, go walk your campus with a fresh set of eyes as a family, do you reflect your price point?” Because we all go to a lot of campuses and you’ll notice landscaping and maintenance keep the administration building clean and tidy because folks are there, but get away from that and how does your campus look. So for me, vibe starts with the experienced economy and that starts with the aesthetic is in a sense of place and how it looks and how it feels.
(19:44):
So clean up your landscaping, that’s where I would start. Yeah.
Scott Rhodes (19:47):
When I was a VP-
Jarrett Smith (19:48):
Yeah,
Scott Rhodes (19:48):
Scott,
Jarrett Smith (19:49):
What about
Scott Rhodes (19:49):
You? Yeah. When I was a VP of enrollment at St. Leo and it was an older institution, I would walk campus with facilities every week and then we walked the tour route every week and we made sure as things come up in an older campus, especially in Florida, “Hey, this needs pressure washed. Hey, this sidewalk needs fixed.” I would definitely clean up the campus as well. And then you need to start taking a look at the list of things that make the institution stand out. Do you sound very similar to everyone else? We’re a welcoming campus, we’re small class sizes, all these things. If you sound like everyone else, you’re definitely not going to be a vibe school and stand out. So I mean, that’s the second thing that I would take a look at. Sounds like the Amazon van’s there.
Jarrett Smith (20:44):
Oh my gosh. Yeah. I’m in the Jared’s third studio. I got kicked out of my office this afternoon.
Scott Rhodes (20:53):
Hey, that’s part of having a podcast. That’s okay.
Jarrett Smith (20:57):
This is how we live and work thesedays.
Jeff Kallay (20:59):
Yeah.
Jarrett Smith (21:00):
Well,
Jeff Kallay (21:01):
I think, yeah. Totally Scott, it starts with the aesthetic. Absolutely. It does. You can have all those other things on the list that we talked about, but I have been to most of those schools. They are my clients. They are well-maintained campuses and present well.
Jarrett Smith (21:17):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I would feel the same way and I think start with the visceral, start with the aesthetic and back it up with real substance, but that takes time and is harder to engineer. But yeah, good stuff, Jeff. Thanks for this one. Enjoyed this conversation.
Scott Rhodes (21:37):
Yeah, absolutely. Me too.
